Discussion Topics

« Return to Let's talk about ethanol

Cellulosic ethanol projects have uncertain future?

Kristin

There have been a number of articles recently about the future of cellulosic ethanol production, speculating that the next-generation fuels might not meet the levels set forth in the Renewable Fuels Standard.

This article was in the Des Moines Register yesterday, written by Phil Brasher: "Brasher: Biofuels projects have uncertain future"

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2009911220319

Cellulosic ethanol production likely won't meet the RFS levels for the first couple of years, the article states.  Brasher details some of the problems companies are having to secure the federal loan guarantees that are supposed to be available.

I'm sure the state of the economy plays a large role in this, but I can't help but keep coming back to the issue of the E10 Blend Wall.  We do have the RFS, but if the federal government keeps capping ethanol blending at 10% per gallon of gasoline, the marketplace for ethanol is uncertain at best.  If the blend wall issue is resolved, this opens up the marketplace for ethanol and gives a signal to move forward with new technologies.

What are your thoughts?  Any of you cellulose companies -- what are your thoughts on the investment situation or the financial assistance that's available from the feds?  We'd like to hear from you.

Edited: November 23, 2009 03:15PM

Replies to this Topic

Earl

At least 2 celulosic ethanol companies I know of are in the final stages of being considered for loan guarentees.  Verenium for its project in florida and BlueFlame.  Verenium refers to this as the Due Dilegence phase.  They expect final approval in early 2010 when the hope to brake ground.  The Obama administration is being very careful in its choice of companies and projects.

Bryan

My thoughts on ethanol are parallel to my thoughts on any appropriate technologies; if left up to the beauracrats it will never happen.  The status quo has our country in a very firm grip; fossil fuel companies have billions of dollars to dedicate to misinformation campaigns designed to keep the populous at their mercy.

Just following our President's speech last night was an address by the RNC stating that we need to drill off the coast of Florida and that Obama was standing in the way.  I am a Floridian and I don't want drilling off the coast; I've been to Galveston Beach and I have the sludge stains on a bathing suit to prove it!!!

The only way forward is to demonstrate to others the alternatives; form energy cooperatives, demand alternatives to fossil fuels.  I am a General Contractor in Florida and I'm in the midst of two projects that are zero-energy and have the ability to produce ethanol from the onsite sewage treatment.  We hold regular workshops at these projects and people are interested!  We've had over 1,000 people come through the gates to learn about what we're doing and they do tell others.  It took a couple of years to be able to acquire the "innovative use" permits to be able to use simple systems of treatment.  We've been trying to do community scale projects and it's an uphill battle; at this point I'm working with a consortium putting together a plan to go to Haiti and set up a demonstration community of Permaculture design that produces cooking fuel and ethanol from the onsite sewage treatment.  Here in the US we get such resistance that at times it looks impossible...

Keith

If you really want to make ethanol more profitable for everyone, use a source of cellulose that contains more than corn.  Research Industrial Hemp.  It's 77% cellulose. Ethanol yields per acre per annum from various feedstock's. Based on average yields per acre according to Bio Gas Company LTD of New Zealand.

Yields in litres per acre

Apples 600-1000

Potatoes 1200-1500

Willow Tree (salix) 1300-1700

Corn 1300-1800

Sugar Beet 1700-2100

Sorghum Cane 2100-2400

Maize 1750-2500

Hemp (BGC) 6000-10000

Based on average yields per acre.

This chart does not contain the large range of difficulty and widespread issues that some of these feedstock's require for processing.

Hemp is also used for fabrics, auto parts, all sort of high quality paper products as well as food for both human and cattle consumption. As you can see from the chart above Hemp produces up to 10,000 litres /acre compared to only 1,500 maximum for corn. That is over 6 times more fuel than from Corn per acre.

There are 28 million acres of agricultural land in California, of which 10 million acres are established cropland. If 10% of this cropland (1 million acres) were dedicated to production of hemp as an energy and fiber crop, we could produce 150-500 million gallons of ethanol per year.

Earl

There is a project in Florida called Vercipia that plans to use Energy cane and High biomass Sorghum as a feed stock.  They have a well verified Yield of 4 times the ethanol per acre of corn.  They say they are planning to break ground on their plant this year and be in production in 2013.  They are preparing the fields for their feedstock already.

     Hemp is an amazing plant but their are still legal problems growing it in this country because of the drug issue.  Drug free strains exist.  It is crazy not to use this incredibly useful plant.  Every part of this plant is useful. There is no waste.

                              Earl

Post Reply

You must be a member of this Groupsite in order to post a reply to this topic.
Click here to join this group.